4 posters
CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Bill- Moderator
- Posts : 1120
Join date : 2009-11-28
- Post n°2
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Nice helmet.
What makes it an officer's?
What makes it an officer's?
BC Canada- New Member
- Posts : 20
Join date : 2019-06-02
- Post n°3
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
The insignia is for the 5th Division officers
ypres- Member
- Posts : 401
Join date : 2014-08-13
- Post n°4
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Very nice helmet. I believe it is the insignia of the 5th division which was worn by all ranks of the division in France which including officer's and other ranks. The second division had a similar C II patch worn by officer's so many collectors believe the practice was the same in the 5th division because the symbols are similar. There was small contingent of 5th div, mainly artillery I believe, which was active in France. I have a similar helmet named to an OR.
All the best,
Ypres
All the best,
Ypres
Bill- Moderator
- Posts : 1120
Join date : 2009-11-28
- Post n°5
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Rick replied with what I was going to say. All ranks wore the helmet with that marking. The 5th Div batteries went to France and were Cdn Corps assets.
37patt- Member
- Posts : 127
Join date : 2009-11-28
- Post n°6
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Clive Law states in his book "Distinguishing Patches" that officers in the 5th Division wore the square 'C' with the 5 bars inside while in the UK.
Clive also states that there is no record of the individual battalions wearing a distinctive shape with the basic patch.
Would the men not have worn the garnet rectangle as that was the Divisional patch and the officers the square 'C' as was used in the UK?
With the division, with the exception of the artillery assets, spending the war in the UK it strikes me that the officers would have used the mark to distinguish themselves from the other ranks as mentioned by Clive making the helmets owner an officer.
Clive also states that there is no record of the individual battalions wearing a distinctive shape with the basic patch.
Would the men not have worn the garnet rectangle as that was the Divisional patch and the officers the square 'C' as was used in the UK?
With the division, with the exception of the artillery assets, spending the war in the UK it strikes me that the officers would have used the mark to distinguish themselves from the other ranks as mentioned by Clive making the helmets owner an officer.
ypres- Member
- Posts : 401
Join date : 2014-08-13
- Post n°7
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Respectfully, your idea about the fifth div spending the war in England is not true. The fifth div elements in England were moved to France where they fought as members of infantry battalions in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th divisions. Therefore, 5th Div elements in France were very small. The variety of flashes found in the other divisions did not exist because there were no units in the field. They probably painted the patch of their new unit on their helmets.
All remaining members of the 5th Div, regardless of rank, would have painted the CIIIII symbol on their helmets. The divisional artillery was in the field and you can find uniforms and helmets to these formations. I have collected helmets for over 40 years and have handled over a hundred WWI examples over that period. I have never seen a 5th div infantry battalion patched helmet. I have handled and seen a dozen or so fifth helmets all of which had this patch painted to the front. I have 2 examples of this type of helmet in my collection presently, one of which is named to a gunner in the artillery.
All the best,
Ypres
All remaining members of the 5th Div, regardless of rank, would have painted the CIIIII symbol on their helmets. The divisional artillery was in the field and you can find uniforms and helmets to these formations. I have collected helmets for over 40 years and have handled over a hundred WWI examples over that period. I have never seen a 5th div infantry battalion patched helmet. I have handled and seen a dozen or so fifth helmets all of which had this patch painted to the front. I have 2 examples of this type of helmet in my collection presently, one of which is named to a gunner in the artillery.
All the best,
Ypres
ypres- Member
- Posts : 401
Join date : 2014-08-13
- Post n°8
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Just our luck ... one came up for sale on this site
https://www.germanmilitaria.com/OtherNations/photos/C030484.html
Here is his service record
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=432904
His rank is "Gunner"
https://www.germanmilitaria.com/OtherNations/photos/C030484.html
Here is his service record
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=432904
His rank is "Gunner"
BC Canada- New Member
- Posts : 20
Join date : 2019-06-02
- Post n°9
Re: CEF 5th Division Officers Helmet
Thank you all for the information. I saw that helmet come up today on collectors guild and was going to search up the history myself so I thank you for saving some time for me.